flooidCX Corporation (CE) (FLCX) ニュース

Excellent post

Mr. Bystander: I think he simply didn't know that they were doubling ampacity by combining pairs, or he would have mentioned it. I assumed that combining pairs would not be permitted under the standards, and it's still not clear to me whether the NEC permits this. (Cat5 cables contain four twisted pairs, each of which has an ampacity of 577 mA.)

Mr D — I’m new to all this “cable talk” so I just did some research of my own and I agree with what you’re saying.

So what does this tell us? Assuming they aren’t combining pairs, we must be missing something. The canned answer is “no we’re not…it’s a scam.” Wrong answer. If Mr Szilard really has a system, and a moron like myself can so easily determine that it would be unsafe to combine PoE/PoE+/PoE++ with greater than approx .5 amps, then there is no way a licensed electrician would not know that. I’m confident Mr S’s system wasn’t installed by the local high school cheerleading squad as a fundraiser. How could the installers not see a problem here?

I guess either Mr S will enlighten us or his building will burn down some time in the near future…

However, I admit it is possible to achieve higher ampacity by combining pairs.
https://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt270/slyt270.pdf?ts=1734307155498

Oops, I meant to say "ampacity"
The ampacity of Cat 5 cables, which typically use 24 AWG conductors, is around 500 mA (0.5 amps) per conductor. In Power over Ethernet (PoE) applications, this capacity is used to safely transmit power alongside data.
It's important to note that PoE standards like IEEE 802.3af (PoE), IEEE 802.3at (PoE+), and IEEE 802.3bt (PoE++) have been designed with these limitations in mind. They ensure that the power delivered over Ethernet cables stays within safe limits to prevent overheating and maintain reliable performance.

Mr. Bystander: That's fine, but now perhaps ask Mr. Google about the ampacy, or maximum amperage, of Cat 5 cable (regardless of voltage).

I asked Google about the efficiency of PoE for lighting and this is the first thing that popped up —

“PoE lighting uses Power over Ethernet technology to connect, monitor, and control LED light fixtures used in smart building solutions. Smart PoE lighting reduces installation and operating costs by more than half and helps building owners meet wellness and sustainability goals.”

Thank you, MagnetLover. I tried explaining how it was inappropriate to be using data cables for power transmission but that just triggered an ad hominem response. One uses data cables for data and power cables for power to achieve the most economic and efficient system. Using data cables for power transmission will only yield disadvantage.

Oh, sure, because using a ethernet wire, which is meticulously engineered to carry high-frequency data signals up to 100MHz, with its four twisted pairs and shielding designed specifically to fend off electromagnetic interference, just to lug around some basic electricity, is totally the genius move of the century and screams efficiency and viability.

We will never see those pictures, will we?

Mr Dorick, the last paragraph that you quoted on post #2682, "the dopes......." is an excellent example of meaningless word salad devoid of any technical validity. Obviously a Danzikism.

Mr Szilard, you continually misquote me. I never said powering devices via USB or other data cables was dumb. I said using data cables in place of power cables is a dumb idea and i maintain that stance strenuously. For a given power rating data cables are considerably more expensive than power cables and offer zero advantage. Lots of buildings have lots of data cables but these have dedicated uses and are not free to piggy-back a Danzik doohickey to them so new cabling will be required at a cost greater than a basic power cable.

Mr. S: The ampere limit for Cat 5 is .577 amps. According to your remarks the sytem is putting over 1 amp through Cat 5. Not "brilliant."

Power Over Ethernet (POE) is a real thing. Elon Musk uses POE to power its Starlink dish and to transmit 2-way data to/from the router. I know because I installed one at my house. That being said, I still think this outfit is a scam.

Thank you Mr Szilard

MsRoxanne - My building was filmed. I gave permission. Quantum is planning on featuring installations on their website.

My distributor did apply and pull permits. Its was inspected (twice). The low voltage installation did not require a permit. All of my equipment is U/L or Intertek approved devices.

A conductor is a conductor. Wire is wire. Data or electrical energy. That is the brilliance of the technology. Stay under the voltage, around 50 volts (and the amp limits) and voila! Do you understand how many industrial and commercial buildings are already wire with CAT or USB wiring? No conduit required and in many areas no permitting required. Brilliant!

I see everyone just blew past my questions.

1. How does a licensed contractor install the system without a permit?
(We really believe part of the company’s plan is to retrofit buildings without getting permits?)

2. Because a permit is required why would the county sign off on such an inept and/or dangerous menagerie of unconventional wiring, engines, photon collection devices, etc?
(The company has been talking about UL and NTS, etc testing for years…surely something like this would have to be in place)

3. Why aren’t distributors marketing directly to the public?

When considering these things, Ms Roxanne is right — let’s see some pictures.

IF Mr S really does have a system, it’s perfectly plausible to think many systems actually will be installed because tax credits and accelerated depreciation would make the system cost effective even if it wasn’t the most efficient.

I chose real estate development and construction over practicing law. My undergrad was C/E, and I worked for my father and grandfather in construction. I love real estate development. Very simple.

Power over ethernet (PoE) is a dumb idea? Wow! As I said, with each of your postings, you lose credibility. Stranded wire (AWG) is stranded wire. It is a conductor, regardless of use for data or electrical energy.

Mr. PC: I just discovered that it's possible to be a member of the bar association without actually being a qualified attorney. Perhaps that is the case with Mr. S. I don't claim to know, one way or the other.

Mr. PC: On 3/13/24 Mr. S did say: "I am a now non-practicing member of the bar association."
On 10/21/24 Mr. S posted a response to me that included the statement "I would disagree, and since my 36 year legal career exceeds yours, especially in the USA, and Canada concerning investments and securities..."
On 10/17/24 Mr. S said "I have handled securities for more than 35 years."
On 10/16/24 Mr. S absurdly told me, after I used the phrase "Claims for Relief" in a post claiming securities violations by Quantum and FlooidCX: "I sincerely hope you understand that you are now violating the law by stating claims outside of a court of competent jurisdiction. In other words, you have manufactured a post that looks like it is an actual legal claim, filed with a court, but it is not."
On 10/17/24 he also absurdly told me that "Neither the SEC, nor OSC take written complaints with Claims, a legal definition under law."
Mr. S's absurd reactions to the fact that I used the phrase "Claims for Relief" in posts alleging violations of certain securities and exchange statutes make it hard for me to believe that he was ever a qualified attorney - but that's what he claimed, so I'm not saying he wasn't - I'm just saying it's hard for me to believe.
Now that I've answered your question, I have one for you: How would you evaluate this statement by Mr. S of 10/18/24: "The dopes on this board have absolutely no idea what the tech actually does. It expands photonic production, and yes, the photovoltaic production band from 40 to 52 volts to just over 5 to 100 volts, all going to storage. All loads, brilliantly in my opinion come off storage, the system up to the batteries see micro loads as it is all capacitance."

Mr Dorick, a quick question for you. In #2670 Mr Szilard states that he is a civil engineering contractor and has been for over 30years. Maybe i am wrong but i thought he had stated some time ago that he was a non-practicing lawyer. Not impossible that he could be both although it seems unlikely. What do you think? or am i mistaken?

The requirements for a good data cable are not the same as those for a power cable. A data cable is usually implemented using twisted pairs with an overall screen, the object being low susceptibility to noise from external fields and low transmission of emf to adjacent equipment. Voltage rating and current carrying capability are not major factors. Power cables must have adequate insulation for the rated voltage and the cross section area must be adequate for the rated current carrying specs. All in all a different set of criteria and the idea of using data cable for power applications is plain and simple a dumb idea.

Feasibility aside, what are the benefits of using data cable? It's not cheaper, is it?

I see a lot of nonsense from Mr S was posted while i slept. Mr S seems to think to be competent in any field one must know EVERYTHING. I have never used data cables in my work, the conductors i would have been using included copper and copper clad aluminium bars and copper cables of cross sectional area 90-300 square millimetres. An important issue was mentioned and not expanded on: Does Danzik have UL certification, if not there will be insurance problems. And yes, Mr MagnetLover, using data cable for power is ridiculous- Mr S thinks it is some kind of technical breakthrough!!

Whoooo finally some action.

Mr.S: why would one use CAT5 or USB cords (designed primarily for data) to conduct energy? It can't go into a normal router, which is absolutely not equipped to harvest energy from lighting. It has to go to a proprietary box. But then, why not use normal cables which are much cheaper?

This doesn't make any sense.

Also, I second MsRoxanne: the only way for you to restore some credibility is to share pictures of the install. I frankly don't know why NO ONE in the public has been able to see any of the MANY installs (according to you) of the Quantum system. This is a commercial energy system, not a top secret DARPA project from area 51. 😁

I have no idea what you’re saying. All I am saying is that instead of posting pics or a video of his installed energy system to prove what he is saying is the truth (meaning, he has a Quantum system that has been installed in his building), he argues with you and PC about cables, physics and energy. So I say it again, post some pics or other proof of your system, Mr. S, because many of us don’t know the difference between an amp, volt, or cat 5 cable.

Ms. Roxanne: That is not the case at all - and I have no idea why you would think so. Let's not raise false hopes.

Why don’t you just post some pics of your installed system instead of arguing science stuff with people you say don’t know what they’re talking about? Shut them up right quick!

Mr. S: What do you mean "Cat5 is 1 amp?" I provided a link to the fact that Cat 5 is rated for a maximum current of .577 amperes or 577 mA - no matter what the voltage or wattage may be. If you are actually delivering 6 watts through the cable at slightly less than 5 volts, then you must be putting slightly more than 1 amp through the cable, and you are exceeding the Cat 5 amperage rating - simple as that. Here is the link again:
https://www.circuitsgallery.com/how-much-current-can-cat5-carry/
Evidently you assumed that Cat 5 cable has the same amperage rating as RJ45. That is not the case at all. If your system is actually putting 1 amp or or more through Cat 5 cable then they need to rip it out and try again. Cat 6 is rated for 1.2 amps or more. Cat 5 is rated for less than half of that. You ought to be thanking me for pointing out a serious mistake in the system - and you have every right to demand that Quantum corrects this unacceptable mistake at their own expense, no matter the cost to them. I warned you over and over that your trust in Scammer Danzik and his fraudulent companies was very misplaced, and it seems we have just uncovered a very clear example of the consequences of misplaced trust. Instead of insulting me, maybe try asking a qualified electrical engineer who is NOT affiliated with Quantum whether Cat 5 cables are permitted under the National Building Code of Canada to carry over 1 amp (no matter the voltage) in any building! I'm confident that he will tell you that they are not - and you will have every right to demand that Quantum replace them with something better at their own expense, since they should have known better than to make such an unacceptable blunder.

You are an electrical engineer? Electrical engineer that is "not familiar" with wire gauges? CAT cable and wire gauges are the same. A 23 gauge stand alone wire is the same as assemble 23 gauge wire in a cable. With every post you lose credibility.

I still can sense that Mr. Danzik lives rent free in your head. Cat5 is 1 amp. Cat5e and Cat6a are rated for 90 volts 90 to 100 watts. Quantum is also offering custom cables. All low voltage +/- 50 volts) so no conduit, wall switches or other costs. Saved me a small fortune.

Until Danzik, no one sent harvested energy back through USB or ethernet. I did the research myself. I have Cat5e Cat6a. Which can go 90 volts and 100 watts. RJ45 is rated 1.5 amps per wire. You obviously do not understand building standards in the USA. We follow NFPA 70. I have been a general contractor / civil engineering for over 30 years.

Here are just some of Danzik's new patent publications:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20240146239A1/en

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20240142073A1/en?oq=+20240142073

Dorick and Mr PC — I’m confident you’re missing something when it comes to safety. These systems would have to be permitted by the local authority, and it wouldn’t be possible to pass an electrical inspection if they weren’t safe. Also, the company claims the system has been tested by UL etc for safety. The real question is whether or not the system provides a meaningful benefit.

Mr. PC: I greatly doubt that the residential and commercial building codes in any state of the USA would even permit the use of CAT 5 cable for wiring 1 ampere lighting systems. I can't believe any building code would permit exceeding the maximum amperage rating that way. This might even give insurance companies a reason to deny coverage or reject claims, if they find out someone did this. Maybe this is one of the reasons why FlooidCX and Quantum don't want to make any information about their system publicly available.

Well spotted Mr dorick. I am not that familiar with data cable ratings as power engineering has been my field. Small devices are regularly powered by USB links but this idea of using them for anything more than small mobile devices is ridiculous.

Mr. S: CAT 5 cable is absolutely NOT appropriate for conducting 1 ampere of current (at any voltage). CAT 5 cables are designed to carry a maximum current of around 0.577 amperes (577 mA). Using it to conduct higher currents could lead to overheating and potentially damage the cable.

https://www.circuitsgallery.com/how-much-current-can-cat5-carry/

"Quantum patents allow for the bi-directional flow of produced and harvested energy through USB and ethernet" . So what? It has always been possible to do so with these cables. None of this will save a red cent of one's power bill. If six watts of power can give you adequate lighting, well good for you, you have efficient lights but the technology behind such lighting comes from the led manufacturers, not Danzik. What i said was a lower supply voltage will require heavier cables for the same wattage and this same principle applies in all electrical applications. And i am not making any assumptions, i know this business thoroughly. Any chance you could supply the relevant patent numbers- a quick search fails to show them.

You claim to be an engineer, but Quantum patents (published) allow for the bi-directional flow of produced and harvested energy through USB and ethernet. All of my installed Photon lighting is 5 volt (slightly less) at just about 1 amp, about 6 watts that replaced 15 to 30 watt LED. All of my new wiring is CAT 5. Your assumptions as an "engineer" are so far afield from the facts, its very odd indeed.

I’m no accountant, but seems to me the company could use accelerated depreciation to partially offset income from selling distributorships. Additionally, the receipt of tax credits is not dependent upon a company generating a positive net profit. Take the Carthage refinery tax credits for example….from my understanding that refinery was NOT profitable.

Lighting can be implemented with pretty well any supply voltage and there is no particular advantage with any one method. Having said that, operation at 5volts would require heavier than normal cabling to avoid losses due to the higher current involved, same reason high voltages are used for grid transmission. Done correctly a 5volt distribution for lighting will behave as good as any other system but there are no specific advantages.

Mr. Bystander: "Tax breaks" only become meaningful if there is some INCOME from which to get a tax break! Mr. S says his system was "investor funded," but that makes no sense, the money has to come from Quantum if it isn't coming from Mr. S. So where is the income?

Post some pics! I’m dying to see it!

Glad to hear it is working for you at this point in the game.

Curious, what’s your theory as to why distributors (even yours) aren’t making themselves available to customers through websites, etc? Why is the only marketing/advertising coming from Quantum/Flooid? I recognize that you’re just a customer/investor, but surely you have an opinion on this particular piece of the puzzle.

Thank you

Yes, my machine tool operations. My sheet metal plant is next. My savings go to 22% next June. I'll take it! My electric bill has skyrocketed over the past few years. As I stated, I ordered a substantial amount of extra lighting (my old building was very dark), and that lowered my savings. But the 5 volt lighting is great. Very happy with that part. I can tell you that delivery was VERY slow (painfully) due to Quantum ramping up production. My other building will not be done until February or later due to backlog. My distributor has been in business here for many decades. Family owned, and they are also very happy with Quantum products. I am not endorsing anything yet as all this is new to me, but so far, I am very impressed.

Here’s two possibilities in light of the fact that the company has mentioned the availability of state and federal tax credits as well as 60% accelerated depreciation of the equipment costs.

1. The customer pays for the equipment/installation and is then eligible for the tax breaks

2. The company (or distributor) covers the upfront costs (“investor funded”), customer makes monthly payments, and the company/distributor receives the tax breaks.

In either case, the cost effectiveness of the system is impacted by the size of the tax breaks and the installation/equipment costs which can vary from location to location. Because of those variances, the claimed net savings ranges from 20-40%.

Mr Bystander, it is very hard to know exactly what Mr Szilard has or has ordered, from the fragmentary information he has provided. There is of course no obligation on him to provide any more than that which he has already willingly provided.

On October 2 Mr. S said: "No, once my system is installed my electric bill is paid under the contract." He also said "My system is investor funded, as I do not need the tax benefits at this time. Zero cost to me other than my monthly equipment payment which is fixed for 240 months and is 38% lower than my current electric bill."
But now he says it's only 20% lower.
But even at 20% lower, there's something very fishy about this deal. I don't know when it will all come unravelled - but it is going to come unravelled.

Mr Szilard once mentioned that he had ordered systems for his two businesses. So I’m assuming, if he’s not an imaginary figure, that the installation took place at one of his business locations.