Rocket Companies Inc (RKT)

Newflow
Does AI not understand that the APR as you are suggesting has already been VIOLATED???????? Bonds were NOT ALL PAID and they are iin a much HOIGHER PRIORITY basis than TPS P or K, this is what I am talking about to me THERE IS NOT APR or if there was IT HAVE BEEN VIOLATED and stepped around and bond holders would be screaming bloody murder and THEY ARE NOT
""* **Seniority Matters:** A plan cannot provide a distribution to a junior class (like Common Equity) unless the senior class (Preferred Equity) has been fully satisfied.
* **The "Full Payment" Trigger:** The phrase "in the event that all Allowed Claims... are paid in full" is the legal trigger for when the Liquidating Trust Interests (which hold the residual value of tax attributes and litigation settlements) move down the waterfall to equity holders.

"they have to follow absolute priority as per law IMO.'

UMM, NO.

That would have been the law, EXCEPT.....

ALL Documents and Prospectuses for Prefs and Common were CANCELLED.

They are NOW Equity Interests. THEREFORE, there is no absolute priority.

The APR was/is GONE. This was a very rare occasion, for the sole purpose that Common would not possibly be wiped out.

As far as I am aware, these are published FACTS.

NF

299B is pure garbage..
WMI remaining estate assets worth in the trillions...

Amen Newflow Let the info flow

Complete BS.  What a joke.  We’re 18 years past and Nostradamus here has been playing “wiff”le ball (pun intended) and toying with the sheep for years.  Don’t be a fool to give any credence to it

Have a good day BOB,LG,RON,STOX...everybody.

NEWFLOW and PLEASE DON'T QUIT HERE

Many times i said that i quit here(wink wink), but i am not. Just i say that, for enjoying people crawling out and say good bye.

BOB, Ron claims that WMI was worth of $299B, that is pure garbage i buy in.

No problem BOB, we all are grown ups, we agree to disagree. AI doesn't know about these cases unless you present the facts and feed its brain. It might take an year for me to go thru 7th amended plan and understand, or 10 years. For AI it might take less than a minute to parse thru, thats the beauty. The people who built these AI systems were not aware of WMI or Lehman chapter 11 cases, S&G, the court hearings and discussion on boards...etc. We have to feed AI, present facts that way it can answer better IMO.

Newflow
PLEASE do not take my comments as a SLAM on you OR THE MASSIVE WORKS YOU HAVE DONE HERE it is certainly not meant that way at all.
Keep up the work I love reading it but understand it then makes all that read it have questions about it.
Thanks again

P.S. This is what HEALTHY DEBATES are about

LG, 4) Not sure how the court could cancel all preferred and common stock prospectuses and all associated documents on the (ED) Effective Date of March 19, 2012 and leave some of the same documents in play for the Safe Harbor assets as this would create dual ownership of assets it would seem.
= Exchanging LTIs as mentioned in the form 8953(if i am not wrong) filed by COOP.

newflow THANKS

It seems like novascotiaSTS ( and Speaker ) can hardly wait for the massive payouts coming their way

newflow

THANK you as you just confirmed that WE PEONS have NO REAL IDEA what was negotiated

""" what were the terms and parties involved, no clue to public."""

And so with this being a FACT then in short AI doesn't know either correct? As it can only glean PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE and FILLINGS

AND I know of 2 filling that has flat out told us 75/25% and there was no CAP nor specification as to what all that included or didn't include.
So based on that i WILL TAKE THE CO'S FILINGS PR'S AND WORDS AS fact

IT IMHO WAS A VERY SCHREWED way if covering their butts legally so that nobody can come back and say this WERE MISLEAD

OK so we agree to DISAGREE nbd

Yes, my only point is that AI is sometimes 100% correct, but sometimes, only partially correct. So AI is learning but a long ways from perfect. So we just need to keep double and triple checking what it's telling us... but as always, I appreciate NewFlow and everybody else who posts their thoughts and or data.. ND9

They used several vehicles BOB, we dont have any clues.

Got it BOB. Though people question me instead of administrators of the cases, they can't discourage me. I post here to deliver info, not to consume.

Newflow

again you and AI BOTH seem to forget there is NO APR involved in this case and they spent 2 years to get it taken out of this case whereby it DOES NOT APPLY ANY LONGER

SOrry just the way I see it and if I am wrong, I WILL BE THE FIRST HERE TO ADMIT THAT but I don't think I am gonna need salt and pepper for my crow but have ample for any that need some when this all come down for THEIR CROW

I will BOB.

Newflow
IMHO none of us HERE REALLY HAVE any idea either
ANd no offense to MW BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT I can assure you that MW SOUTHERD aint as smart at TEPPERS SAVIT's TPS"S and underwriters lawyers NO WAY NO HOW and they imho would NOT have signed off on this if they were getting the short end of the stick..................................................

Because Robert Stark is a buddy of Mr. W, could be. Just kidding BOB, Debtor was solvent and Mr. Nelson asked THJMW that equity at minimum should take control of the estates once claims were satisfied which happened in 2019 Dec, admins stepped in and Mr. W and crew stepped out as TAB, RALTA kicked in and what were the terms and parties involved, no clue to public. Piece of work, IMO.

Freedom of speech in a ""CIVIL WAY""
Nobody should be attacking anyone for their opinions here, debating and pointing out why one feels the way they do is fine but all need to except that is how the person feels
Me I amy75/25 to the end but that is NO REASON TO HATE or be nasty to each other, and if RON is right so be it I'll be rich.

Again, one has to remember 75/25% may very well have been on KNOWN assets but since as we believe the bulk of the estate is in SPE's that were off book, they can't just take that ownership positions as to what we hold of the RESIDUAL ASSETES LEFT IN THE SPE's as we were/are owners of that and to me that means 75/25% to the end.........

BOB, they have to follow absolute priority as per law IMO. They can't divide an estate which was under chapter 11 without having complete accounting in 2012. If that is the case, its opening a big window for corruption and manipulation down the line, IMO.

BOB, with all due respect AYA has no clue how Mr. W and crew maneuvered these cases. Great work of Mr. W and S&G.

Why in the world WOULD ANYONE That held TPS P or K's allow commons to participate in a plan at 75/25% if there was not an AGREEMENT that allowed them to participate if IF IFIN the TPS P K were not paid in full face first?
THEN AS SOME WOULD HAVE US Believe THAT ONCE FACE IS PAID THAT THE COMMONS THEN GET TO COME BACK AND GET THE BALANCE OF THE ESTATE """"

SORRY BUT YA JUST CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS you get to play in recoveries before you are allowed and then once face is paid you Q's get the rest..
SOrry but this is just insane to me and I see no way TPPER TPS SAVITZ UNDERWRITERS or any would agree to this

"FREEDOM OF SPEECH, IN A RIGHT WAY"

Stox and others who are concerned, these are facts. There were 4 EC members on TAB,why?. To protect equity part interests, they were appointed by court. There were two former executives appointed as administrators in Jan 2020 pursuant to RALTA and parties there to, who were the parties and what were the terms,public doesn't know, why?. Mr. W had atleast a million common shares and he will do his best for best outcome IMO. Distribution is a must, and happen sometime this year IMO. PAC is out there Infront of our eyes, it was formed in 2021.

LG
I have always said that in this case commons were allowed to play in a sand box that at the time they would not have been allowed to play in but the courts fixed that and NOW SUPPOSEDLY the common get their cake/our cake and get to eat it too , Me thinks not as it just doesn't make any sense at all

In negotiations someone always gives and takes a bit. To insure that commons might at least get something the APR was abandoned but if there turns out to be far more they can't just throw the APr back into play so commons got to play NO MATTER HOW MUCH CAME BACK here10/ 24 bill or 299bil
So they agreed to take the chance and get something back and not get screwed if on 7.5 bill came in and could only take care of TPS P K................... So they took the gamble

AI IS NOT PERFECT NOR INFALABLE as we have seen now on multiple occasions


Me I lean BOVIOULSY 75/25 to the end.........

NOW understand I am HEAVY in P/K but if RON and AI are correct and there is some 6X's face coming back for those and my few Q's get the balance, I WILL Still BE AS HAP HAP HAPPY as a PIG ROLLING IN CHIT since it would make my q's worth a literal fortune PER SHARE.
Either way it would be more money than I have ever seen at one time in my life

BINGO

Being that all are in the same boat let's all row the same direction and get to the end of this 6X's face or 75/25% who really gives a chit as the numbers would imho still be staggering for most if not all here OR AT LEAST THEY WOULD BE FOR ME..........

BBANBOB, yes, and common sense also goes a long way toward believing 75/25 all the way to the end. AI has been more wrong than correct, especially on this travesty of a case, so the following should bolster this process.

1) Judge Walrath worked for about two years to abolish the (APR) Absolute Priority Rule for this specific case, which has only happened a few times in Delaware history

2) The UWs fought and spent two years fighting Alice to stay in class 19 and to keep the RALTA redacted

3) The UWs were also given an extra year to decide on their specific releases. This as they do the very work that WaMu required to keep assets free of seizure from the FDIC by ensuring assets were well protected and followed Safe Harbor, bankruptcy remote procedures to the T for protection against unlawful seizure

4) Not sure how the court could cancel all preferred and common stock prospectuses and all associated documents on the (ED) Effective Date of March 19, 2012 and leave some of the same documents in play for the Safe Harbor assets as this would create dual ownership of assets it would seem

5) Judge Walrath posited if there were ten billion left, the commons would not get to play under the APR, as it would have all gone to preferred, and we know this did not happen, as the 75/25 was in play

6) During court-ordered closed-door Mediation that lasted two months, it appears to be what the players agreed to, and that was the 75/25, so ALL participants could play from the first dollar forward to the end, not just so they could play then possibly reap larger rewards

7) There are over 800 court-sealed/redacted documents in this case so there is no way that AI could possibly know including us so we will have to wait and see how this plays out when distributions start

8) Others and I have always said that everyone will do very well, but some may do better than others

9) There is an August 01, 2012, WMILT 8K filing that specifies some facts due to message board chatter that says, preferred and common equity interests will be distributed at 75/25 ratio, and no, this could NOT be for just part of the Estate in my view

10) As always, filings and time passing will provide the facts and hopefully distributions

...

Newflow

""WMI filed with BK court assets and libilities.""

BUT BUT BUT since SPE's are not OWNED by the company that have set them up THEY CAN NOT BE COUNTED AS a part of the ESTATE ASSETS (JUSTIN NELSON) SINCE THEY HAD TO LEGALLY SELL THEM AND TAKE THEM OUT OF THEIR NAME


See we look at all avenues AI does not

RON NEWFLOW
Guys chill we are all in the same boat so let's not get real personal about all this stuff.
ONLY ONE THING MATTERS THERE IS STILL A LOT LEFT OUT THERE AND WE WILL IMHO BE PAID.
75/25 for all or 6x's P K value I and many here would be just fine with that albeit I feel the 75/25 is to the very end.

NOT much longer to find out if we are HERO OR ZERO and it won't change how I eat sleep drink or live it is just gravy on top

Just a data point but yesterday I asked doodle Gemini for a complete list of fdic bank receiverships still open. It gave me a list of 44 that didn’t even contain wamu and United western bank. When I pointed that out to Gemini, it came back and said, “sorry, you are correct, I was mistaken.” So unless you correct AI, the machine believes it is correct.

newflow
Will you please ask your AI WHY TPS FOUGHT FOR TWO YEARS IN COURT TO GET the APR rule taken out of this case if they just intended to turn around and are going to pay it out as if the was STILL AN APR rule governing this.

TIA

"This in NO WAY is specific to or suggest any limitations as to when the 75/25% ENDS OR IS ONLY GOOD FOR A LIMITED SPECIFIC CUT OFF ON RETURNS.............in any way FORM OR FASHION"

EXACTLY, BBAN! The Court itself Clearly set the "75%/25% SPLIT" BEFORE POR7 was "Ratified" and this was the Basis on which POR 7 was "Ratified"....So, For Anyone to Now Say that there are "Limitations" on that POR 7 Plan are Limitations "That Have been IMAGINED" "In Their OWN MINDS" ....Mostly, this "Narrative" has been Pushed around by Folks that didn't own any of the Preffereds...

And I am Not Even Sure Why they want to "PUSH" this "Narrative" ...Because, if we are to Go By FDIC's Own Reports, AT LEAST $299 Billion, and that is a "BILLION" with a "B" (Its NOT "Peanuts" by any means!), Then Even the "25%" of the POT for the WaMuQs would mean around $75B for the "released WAMJqs" which is Massive ROI....I am happy that I own WaMuQs too...

Also, the whole Saga of the Underwriters and the way they "wiggled themselves" to be Put INTO Class 19 instead of Class 22 points to "75%/25" without any "Limitation" ..

NEWFLOW
None of AI responses on the 75/25% makes any real sense as WE KNOW FOR FACT the THE TPS GROUP fought in court for almost 2 yrs to have the ABSOULUTE PRIORITY REMOVED ! AND SUCCEDED IN GETTING IT DROPPED/CANCELLED IN THIS SITUATION.

So I guess my question is HOW DID IT JUST SUDDENLY REAPPEAR out of the blue

BBAB,
We won't know Until IF/When any of the "PAC Distributions: occur and I am Not even Sure that PAC Itself held ALL the Assets of Erstwhile WaMu...

Yes, We are All So Worn Out waiting these 15 - 18 years But maybe this Delay was All "By Design" so that we'll accept whatever 'Morsels' are thrown at us as "F&R Recoveries' and "Move On' without any fight for Real Justice!

LARGE GREEN

I know how you and I and many other here feel and I for one will take a court filing om 2 separate occasions as a CYA so that NO ONE CAN HAVE A LEGAL LEG TO STAND ON if any decided to legally question the 75/25%

Time will tell and time will tell all

AND that the distribution to Tranche 6 will be shared 75% and 25% pro rata between claims on account of Preferred Equity Interests and Common Equity Interests, respectively.

This in NO WAY is specific to or suggest any limitations as to when the 75/25% ENDS OR IS ONLY GOOD FOR A LIMITED SPECIFIC CUT OFF ON RETURNS.............in any way FORM OR FASHION...........

MY STORY AND STICKING TO IT

Naught
Actually it did address the 75/25% but not the way you/we wanted to hear it spelled out.

Expect a payout based strictly on the **RALTA waterfall.** This is a mathematical accounting exercise. Once the preferred interests (Class 19) are paid their face value, every remaining dollar in the audited pool *must* drop to the common equity (Class 22).


I have spoen to AYA on multiple occasions and she still 100% contends that 75/25% is for the entire estate down to the very last penny.

Like I have said if it is not for the entire estate I would still NOT BE UN HAPPY at all with my ROI even after some 18 plus yrs in this mess

But I also content that the company DID NOT COME OUT on TWO SEPARATE occasions to confirm the 75/25% for no reason or if it was NOT THE WAY it was going to be

Just imho

ALL VERY VALID Questions, Ron....If the "Administrators themselves Retire", because PAC is no longer "In Existence", who will see through the "Execution" of the "Distributions"?...

Based on "New Flow's Prompts" (Which itself is an added "Wrinkle", because I would rather AI give its 'own' 'researched' opinion rather than 'prodding' from an external actor to be able to 'generate' its Opinion)... I am Not Faulting New Flow BUT If for some reason Gemini Now 'thought/reasoned' that the "PAC Distributions" will Occur AFTER the September 13, 2026 Date, then It has to give a Specific Reason for doing so. Instead, When NF 'Fed' Gemini my Response questioning why it was changing its position now, it 'defended itself' that it was Not "Hallucinating" and then started "Accusing" me that I was saying it was "Hallucinating' Because I was "Frustrated" that I was Not Going 'to be PAID Immediately NOW"... What Nonsense! The WHOLE "Initial Timeline" between June - September 13, 2026 was its OWN "Initial Opinion" and then the 'Shifted" Timeline of AFTER September 13, 2026 Is ALSO It's OWN "Changed Opinion"....

Now, I was aware of PAC but initially that came about based on what LG had posted about the existence of PAC and his initial postings about the "Long Form D Filing" by PAC and his initial postings that he was expecting something to occur anytime, during a 6-month timeline leading to its closure Sept 13th, 2026. Also initially LG had misread that PAC's 2nd 3-year period was ending by June 26th, 2026 or something like that, which is all fine,,,. But, while I was hopeful, like many of us here are, I wasn't Frustrated that I was "Not going to be Paid Immediately in these 3 Months before Sept 13th. 2026"!

Maybe there is "Case Law" that "Long Form Dissolutions" filed in Delaware Occur AFTER the Dissolution...BUT for some reason that wasn't Gemini's "Initial Position"... So, the question remains as to who 'will be in Charge' after Sept 13th, 2026. Hopefully, IF "Distributions' have to Occur AFTER the "Dissolution Period Ended", then whoever were the Officers of PAC, will still have all the Legal powers to 'Execute" any Distributions arising from its dissolution.

GLTU & GLTA True WaMu Escrow-Holders!

Nice post! I agree!!

Only 63 days until 9/13

😄

Not just yours only stox, whoever raised concerns. Its a public forum, i am trying to fill in the gaps of every beneficiary who are in my same situation looking for answers, i dont mislead anyone for my benefit. I wish you and all involved goodluck, it has been a great journey. I dont give up.

WMI Filed for BK As a Solvent Debtor.

$32 Billion in assets and $8 Billion in liabilities.

~$24 Billion positive equity.

It gets even more crazy when you understand WMIIC


That is pretty simple math from the first two WMI/WMIIC filing. Gemini having difficulty with this topic?

Do you really think Gemini can understand all the Court documents in a simple search?

Gemini has missed the mark on many points.

Gemini has made many statements about various topics that are not verifiable with the link as proof for the statement.

Please keep educating Gemini on the facts.

Thank you for your efforts to find solutions to this travesty.



Ron